SCIENCE on
Wisconsin Public Radio

Science Fridays on
National Public Radio

Professor Shakhashiri is a frequent guest of the Larry Meiller Show on the Ideas Network of Wisconsin Public Radio.

Below is some information about past shows.

Past Appearances 2008, 2007, 2006, 2005, 2004, 2003, 2002, 2001, 2000, 1999, 1998, 1997 and earlier

December 12, 2006 Larry Meiller Show

The discussion on the Larry Meiller Show included the following topics in response to questions from Larry and from listeners.

Larry asked about the decision by the National Science Foundation to close the radio observatory at Arecibo, Puerto Rico, which has the world’s most powerful radio telescope (and was featured in Carl Sagan’s book and movie Contact.) Professor Shakhashiri said the reason is a budget problem and the fact that a new radio astronomy center, the Atacama Large Millimeter Array, or ALMA is under construction in Chile. He said the only place where the NSF can make big budget cuts is in its national centers, and NSF says the Arecibo Center (managed under contract by Cornell University) is the least used by astronomers from outside Cornell. Professor Shakhashiri has asked several astronomers for their opinions, and he reports that they have mixed feelings. They are pleased with the new telescope in Chile, but would also like to keep Arecibo in operation. Professor Shakhashiri said many colleagues have expressed concern that a major facility is being shut down for lack of funding while the United States is spending two hundred and fifty million dollars a day on the military. He said decisions on spending priorities should be made carefully. NSF hopes that private funding will come to the rescue, but Professor Shakhashiri doubts that will happen. More information is at http://www.naic.edu/
Larry noted that Congress has adjourned without voting on most spending bills. It passed just two of 11 spending bills (one of those passed was the military budget). That means most federal agencies will continue at the levels of the previous federal budget, which expired on October 1. Professor Shakhashiri said Congress decided to let the next Congress take care of the budget. Calling the lack of action “borderline irresponsible”, Professor Shakhashiri said many science projects are authorized and ready to go, and he noted that the lack of action effects many areas of the budget, not just science.
Larry asked about an offer from the producers of the film An Inconvenient Truth to give the National Science Teacher’s Association 50,000 DVD copies of the film for distribution to science teachers. The NSTA turned down the offer, and one of the producers wrote an op-ed piece in the Washington Post complaining that the NSTA takes corporate funding and alleging that the NSTA refused to take the film for fear of offending oil companies which provide money for NSTA projects. Professor Shakhashiri is a member of the NSTA and its President-elect is science teacher John Whitsett of Fond du Lac, Wisconsin. Professor Shakhashiri said the NSTA’s decision is consistent with its policy of not distributing material for any organization, even though the NSTA’s official policy on global warming agrees with the movie. He said the organization gets four to five hundred such requests every year, and that it would have cost the organization more than one hundred thousand dollars to distribute the DVDs. Professor Shakhashiri said the NSTA offered to allow distribution of the movie at its national and regional conferences or to find some other mutually agreeable method of distribution. While the NSTA gets support from many corporations, Professor Shakhashiri said it must come with no strings attached (he said there were no strings attached to the offer of the DVDs other than agreeing to distribute them and pay the distribution costs). More at http://www.nsta.org/ , http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/11/24/AR2006112400789.html, and http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/12/01/AR2006120101490.html
A caller said the NSTA has taken millions of dollars from Exxon-Mobile, and asserted that vested interests play a role in science education. The caller also asserted that education is being privatized and that outside funding always has strings attached. Professor Shakhashiri said it’s important to get support from all segments of society and he has faith in his colleagues in professional organizations that they will not take money with strings attached and that support for various projects will be fair and legitimate. Professor Shakhashiri said he would lead the opposition to any funding with strings attached.
Larry asked why students in big cities seem to be lagging behind in science education and other areas. A new report says half of eighth graders failed a simple science test in 9 of 10 large cities. Professor Shakhashiri said the challenges facing large city school districts are enormous. He said we owe children the best education we can provide, yet many reports show failure after failure in large city districts. Professor Shakhashiri called it a national challenge that must be dealt with locally. He said attempts so far have made no dent in the problem and the federal No Child Left Behind act treats all states and school districts the same. Society needs to find the political will to solve the problem, he said, including paying teachers enough to retain them in the profession and providing high quality materials for students. He also said there are contributory factors including the big city environment, class size and socio-economic factors. He said the problem is complex and we can’t shy away from dealing with it.
A caller who identified herself as a high school math and science teacher said she feels pressured to teach more things even though she said children don’t have the necessary basic background coming into high school. Professor Shakhashiri said all teachers at every level right up to graduate school feel that students coming to them have not learned the necessary basics at lower levels. He said the focus should always be on learning, which requires patience, parental guidance, good teachers and proper incentives as well as good curriculum and a good pace of instruction. Strategies differ according to age, he said, but parents should take a role and take advantage of all learning situations. He also called on teachers to be selective about topics and teach basic skills.
A caller identified himself as a 20 year old who re-enrolled at the UW-Madison after serving for a year in Americorp. The caller said students should get out of the claustrophobic classroom and into the real world . He described helping teach middle schoolers and seeing them look into a microscope for the first time. Professor Shakhashiri commended the caller for coming back to school–many students who take time off do not come back. He said that among the nation’s 15,000 school districts there are many which are too poor to furnish equipment like microscopes. Professor Shakhashiri said he often hears of teachers who have gone through professional development programs but are unable to apply what they learned due to poor facilities, like a lack of microscopes. He said local people can do something about this if they care, but it’s not good for democracy if they leave it to someone else.
Another caller said his school district has dropped letter grades in favor of indicating satisfactory or unsatisfactory progress. Professor Shakhashiri noted that there are different grading practices, which he said is a good thing because communities should decide what they want. He also said grades should not be considered punishment but can be a positive incentive instead. But he added that grades are not everything–the purpose of a course is to learn, not to get a good grade–that will follow when learning occurs and is properly assessed.
Larry asked about the PBS telecast dates of ONCE UPON A CHRISTMAS CHEERY IN THE LAB OF SHAKHASHIRI. Professor Shakhashiri said Wisconsin Public Television, showings are Friday, Dec. 22nd at 4:30pm; Sunday, Dec. 24th at 8am; and Monday, Dec 25th at 10am. Elsewhere around the country viewers should check local listings.

November 2, 2006 Larry Meiller Show

The Larry Meiller Show dealt with the following topics in response to questions from Larry and from callers.

Professor Shakhashiri participated in the program by telephone from Augusta, Ga., where he was speaking at a regional meeting of the American Chemical Society.

Larry asked if there are clear messages from the candidates in the upcoming election concerning science and technology. Professor Shakhashiri said the direct answer is “no”. He said he’s very disappointed with the mostly negative campaign ads and stated that we deserve better leadership from all candidates. Since science and technology drive the economy, Professor Shakhashiri said we must elevate the level of discussion in the campaigns, about stem cell research, for example, and pay attention to the ramifications of decisions. Professor Shakhashiri wishes that politicians would seek more advice from science, but added that scientists have been too reticent about offering advice. He said we all have a responsibility to participate in the democratic process.

A caller said that politicians follow science when it suits their needs but otherwise ignore it. Professor Shakhashiri said it’s important for everyone to engage in dialogue about important issues and do so with respect for human beings, though not necessarily for ideas. He said the political process is what brought us to the great plateau on which we now stand and we should be talking about all important issues. Professor Shakhashiri said religion and science do not clash but represent to different realms. He said they are the strongest forces in society today and should work together and not take unreasonable positions that are detrimental to society.

Larry mentioned an article in Science magazine about a new discovery concerning water. There are at least 15 stable crystalline or amorphous types of ice, and the new discovery concerns a crystalline form called ice 7. When subjected to high pressure and bombardment by X rays, ice seven produces an alloy of hydrogen and oxygen which is very different from the product of freezing hydrogen and oxygen together. Professor Shakhashiri said there’s no practical application of this discovery so far, but it will trigger more research. He said this shows how our ability is now so great to explore substances at the microscopic level that many subjects, including common water, are revealing new secrets.

A caller asked how to get information on college scholarships. Professor Shakhashiri said one step is to contact the department the student is interested in, such as the chemistry or physics departments at universities. Many scholarships are available through departments, especially for graduate students. He also urged the caller to contact the National Science Foundation which has scholarships for grad students which are portable–the student can take them to any university.

A caller said that more basic science information must be made available to the general public or people won‘t be able to vote intelligently. The caller said she recently had lunch with a group of lawyers and could not convince them that there is such a thing as distilled water–they insisted that all water is the same. Professor Shakhashiri said this problem is what the Wisconsin Initiative for Science Literacy is all about–improving the level of science literacy of all citizens.. He noted that distilled water is different from tap water–it contains no minerals. (Distilled water does not conduct electricity–it’s the minerals in tap water that make it conductive.) Professor Shakhashiri said some people need to be approached with patience and understanding, and that it’s a reflection on our educational institutions that the level of understanding is so low. He said schools should make sure that everyone gets a good exposure to science and math to allow them to develop the attitude that lets them succeed in a society dominated by science and technology.

The next caller asked how society can be better educated. Professor Shakhashiri said that’s the big question, and the solution requires working at all levels of schooling to make sure that students understand the nature of science, including its limitations, and understand that the results of science can be either good or harmful. He said that how we handle technology is a human question and that science education is a dynamic process which can be improved.

Larry asked about a recent survey which showed that students do best in math in countries where they say they don’t like math. He asked if happiness is over-rated. Professor Shakhashiri said math is a creative endeavor and that success depends on how it’s taught and whether connections are made to real life. “When I first took calculus”, he said, “I didn’t understand its use until I later took physical chemistry, where it helped me understand the connections.” He said it’s the job of both teachers and parents to encourage interest in math.

Another caller said that the media are dumbing down science. He referred to stories about outbreaks of e coli infections which ignore the fact that e coli is ubiquitous, found in the digestive tracts of all people, and that only certain strains of e coli cause disease. Professor Shakhashiri agreed that it would be better for the media to be correct and accurate in reporting and he called this another example of how we should all pay closer attention to public issues.

Larry brought up the fact that SAT scores dropped considerably last year and asked whether that means anything and whether the next generation will be more poorly educated. Professor Shakhashiri said he’s not an alarmist but that this is one indicator that we must be vigilant about the quality of education. He refused to project the results into the future and say that the next generation will be poorly educated, but he said he is concerned about it. A federal government task force has recommended requiring extensive testing at the college level. Test results are indicators that we must pay close attention to the quality of education because we need a quality work force and people who care about the quality of life.

Larry brought up the 37th annual Christmas Lecture and Professor Shakhashiri said there are (free) tickets still available through his web site http://scifun.chem.wisc.edu/xmaslect/xmascheery.htm

Francisco Ayala - September 26, 2006 Larry Meiller Show

The Larry Meiller Show on September 26, 2006 featured special guest Francisco J. Ayala, Donald Bren Professor of Biological Sciences and Professor of Philosophy, University of California, Irvine. Professor Ayala was awarded the National Medal of Science in 2001. While in Madison, Professor Ayala gave two public talks, “Darwin’s Most Significant Discovery; Design Without Designer” and “From Biology to Ethics; the Biological Roots of Morality.” His talks were co-sponsored by WISL, The Center for the Humanities and the College of Engineering, University of Wisconsin-Madison.

Professor Ayala said Darwin’s most significant contribution was the discovery of natural selection. Copernicus and Newton proved a revolutionary concept, that heavenly bodies obey the same natural laws that pertain on Earth, but unlike heavenly bodies, the development and behavior of organisms could not be explained by natural laws. Darwin’s discovery of natural selection provided that explanation.

Professor Ayala provided an example of natural selection that can be duplicated in the laboratory. Take a test tube containing water, sugar and the amino acid histidine, a building block of protein which the bacteria can’t make for themselves. Add a few bacteria and within two days or so, the tube will contain billions of bacteria. Add a drop of streptomycin, an antibiotic, and most of the bacteria will die. However, a few which have resistance to the antibiotic due to random mutations will survive, and in a few days there will again be billions of bacteria in the tube, most of them resistant to the antibiotic. Take away the histidine and most of the bacteria die, but a few with random mutations that allow them to make their own histidine will survive. Within a few days there will again be billions of bacteria in the tube, all of them able to make their own histidine. Professor Ayala said the eye developed in the same way, starting with a few light-sensitive cells which gave ancient animals a competitive advantage. They reproduced, passing on the ability. Subsequent mutations developed the ability to sense light further until finally arriving at the sophisticated eyes of modern animals.

Professor Alaya says there’s no reason to think that humans are through evolving. There is a great deal of variation within the human population and mutations continually arise, so the species responds to changes in the environment. For example, human populations that rely heavily on milk as a food source have developed lactose tolerance in adults, a trait that gives them an advantage. In many human populations, adults are lactose intolerant. Some populations and some individuals also have more natural resistance to various diseases. As humans respond to new changes in the environment, such as new types of pollution or psychological stress, evolution will continue. Professor Ayala said what evolution can’t tell us is where we are going.

A caller asked why Darwin delayed so long in publishing his findings. Darwin’s diaries make it clear that he got the idea of natural selection in 1837, shortly after returning from his famous five year voyage as the naturalist on a British Navy surveying expedition. Darwin shared his early drafts with some other scientists and planned a large, multi-volume work, but he realized how revolutionary his idea was. He knew it had to be well supported and he wanted to collect as much evidence as possible. Darwin also knew that his idea would be interpreted by some as an attack on religion. Darwin was quite religious himself, having studied for the ministry, and his wife was very religious, and he wanted to avoid conflict. Darwin’s hand was forced in 1858 when he got a letter from a young scientist named Alfred Wallace outlining the idea of natural selection and asking for his comments. Darwin then wrote a single volume work, the famous Origin of Species, published in 1859. Wallace admired Darwin and, realizing that Darwin had worked on the idea for years, gave him credit for the discovery.

The British scientific community mostly supported Darwin, but natural selection met with considerable resistance from the public and from religious leaders who believed he was trying to remove God from the process. But Professor Ayala said many theologians eventually realized that Darwin is religion’s best friend because it solves the problem of evil. The question of why God tolerates evil has been a longstanding problem for theology. But Professor Ayala said just as geology shows that earthquakes are the product of natural laws, not the wrath of God, natural selection shows that the selfish and violent tendencies of humans are also a product of natural laws and not a curse from God.

A caller asked about “evolutionary psychology” or the evolution of cognition. Professor Ayala said some scientists think that cognition is made up of several components which evolved separately, though this is not accepted by everyone. The big question is how the mind–consciousness or self-awareness–came to be. In recent years, genes have been discovered that make human brain development different from that of our nearest relatives, but Professor Alaya says it’s still not understood how physical, chemical signals between neurons attain the unity of self-consciousness. He said this is one of the most challenging mysteries facing science.

Another caller said science should be separated from religion, but said Professor Alaya let religion into the debate by bringing up his explanation of evil. The caller also said evolution and natural selection are only theories that are not supported by the fossil record. He said there should be millions of transitional animals from one type and one species to another, but there are none. Professor Alaya said the caller was mistaken–many transitional species have been discovered, the most famous being the early bird Archaeopteryx, which had wings and feathers but teeth like a reptile. Professor Ayala said it was about as intermediate as you could ask for. Recently a new species has been discovered that’s intermediate between fish and amphibians, and Professor Ayala said thousands of fossils have been discovered of different human-like species which evolved after the human line split from chimpanzees about six million years ago (in some cases it’s still uncertain which ones are our direct ancestors.). As for mixing science and religion, Professor Ayala said evil is not discussed in science classes, though some theologians welcome natural selection as the explanation of evil. Traditionally, evil has been divided into at least two types. Sin has been regarded as the price we pay for freedom–God wants us to be free, but that means we can choose evil. Professor Ayala called the second type “physical evil” such as natural disasters. Just as science shows that earthquakes are not caused by God to punish us, so natural selection explains the apparent cruelty in the world. He said that chimpanzees like to hunt monkeys for meat and sometimes seem to delight in torturing the monkeys before eating them. Professor Ayala said God did not design chimps to torture monkeys–their behavior is a product of natural selection. In reference to intelligent design, the claim that God either designed humans and other animals as they are or guided evolution, Professor Ayala said any designer making the human birth canal such a tight fit for a baby’s head would be fired.

Larry asked Professor Ayala to summarize by asking what the relationship between science and religion should be? Professor Ayala answered, “Respect.” He said science and religion are the two great pillars of American life. Science gives us knowledge and a high standard of living while religion gives us purpose and values. He said we get values from religion which we can’t prove by science.

September 26, 2006 Larry Meiller Show

The September 26, 2006 Larry Meiller Show, with Professor Shakhashiri, included the following topics in response to questions from Larry and from guests.

Larry asked about the results of a study by a National Academy of Sciences panel headed by Donna Shalala, former Chancellor of the University of Wisconsin-Madison and current president of the University of Miami. The panel also included UW-Madison Professor of Plant Pathology Jo Handelsman. The report blamed outmoded institutional structures for holding back women in academia and asserted that women have no innate deficiencies in science or other fields. Professor Shakhashiri called it a powerful report that doesn’t mince words. The report asks academic departments to show evidence of conducting fair and broad personnel searches and says they should be held accountable for searches even if corrections mean canceling searches and starting over. Professor Shakhashiri said it makes the point that gender bias must be eliminated.

Larry also asked about a report from the Thomas Fordham Foundation that gives the state of Wisconsin a D- for K-12 academic standards, and says the state does not do well in educating poor students and minorities. The Wisconsin Department of Public Instruction disagrees with much of the report. Professor Shakhashiri said the Fordham Foundation has good people, including Chester Finn, who was Assistant Secretary of Education under President Reagan, but he also said the Foundation is a conservative think tank with a definite point of view. Nevertheless, Professor Shakhashiri views the report as a warning to pay attention to issues. He noted that in any comparison of states, or of students, someone must be at the top and someone must be at the bottom. He said rankings are not as important as setting and meeting standards. Wisconsin adopted new state academic standards about ten years ago, but Professor Shakhashiri said all standards must be periodically reviewed.

Another report from the National Academy of Sciences, on kindergarten through eighth grade education, has also called for changes. Professor Shakhashiri said the report also calls attention to important issues. The report says doing science should be much more than reciting facts and setting up experiments, and Professor Shakhashiri agrees. The report says the next generation of standards should include four intertwined and equally important strands that comprise the committee's definition of proficiency in science:

“First, students should know, use, and interpret scientific explanations of the natural world.

Second, they should be able to generate and evaluate scientific evidence and explanations.

Third, they should understand the nature and development of scientific knowledge.

And finally, students' work should include active participation in scientific collaboration and discussion.”

A caller said teacher pay has a huge effect on the quality of education. The caller said that in her city, Dubuque, Iowa, younger teachers need second jobs to make ends meet, detracting from the time they can devote to preparation for classes. Professor Shakhashiri said teacher pay in the U.S. is low and asserted that teaching is in danger of becoming a blue collar profession. He said bold action is needed to attract and retain top quality teachers. If the pay could be doubled, he said that would inspire current teachers, help recruit good new teachers and elevate the value of teaching. He said the discussion should be about ways and means of accomplishing this.

Another caller said she has a PhD. in engineering and has taught math in community colleges. The caller said she loved teaching at community colleges and would like to continue teaching at that level or in high school, but needs 18 additional credits to become certified, even though she has taken 30 credits of engineering-related college math courses. Professor Shakhashiri said there’s a need to match the desire of potential teachers with the rules to avoid building impediments to qualified teachers. He recommended that the caller contact her nearest school of education and the Wisconsin Department of Public Instruction to find out the requirements. Professor Shakhashiri told the caller, “We need your attitude in teaching.” Both he an Larry urged her not to give up. Wisconsin has some rules for streamlined certification for people with expertise in certain areas where there is deemed to be a shortage of teachers, including math and science. For more information, see the Department of Instruction web site, dpi.wi.gov. Another caller recommended an organization that offers streamlined courses for certification, NORDA, Inc. It’s web site is projectteaching.com.

Another caller said the American education system has actually done a wonderful job of advancing society. He noted that the education system now includes everyone and that people are getting education whose ancestors got none, but that the system is considered a failure if everyone doesn’t do well. Professor Shakhashiri said we have the most marvelous education systems in the world (not one system), though that doesn’t mean they are perfect. While international comparisons show some deficiencies, he said he wouldn’t trade our systems for any other in the world. The American systems include approximately 15,000 school districts and over 3500 colleges and universities. Professor Shakhashiri doesn’t believe in one monolithic, national system because diversity is at the heart of the freedom we enjoy. He said the systems require constant monitoring–while he’s proud of our systems, he said we must ensure that they remain a source of pride.

Another caller said the purpose of education should be to develop all the talents of all students and that if schools did that, they would not be able to keep the students out, and that such things as metal detectors would not be needed. He said the main problem is plutocratic government and bureaucratic systems. Professor Shakhashiri said in our complex society, many forces act on schools and that security is a valid concern. But he said the schools are trying to do what the caller says. When Professor Shakhashiri is asked his profession, he answers, “I’m in the talent development business”, which is what good teachers try to do. Instead of pointing fingers, he said we should try to point the way to better education.

Larry said that people are already asking about tickets for this year's Christmas Lecture. Professor Shakhashiri said the Lecture will be given four times during the first weekend in December. For information about the Christmas Lecture and requesting tickets please visit http://www.scifun.org/xmaslect/xmascheery.htm

July 25, 2006 Larry Meiller Show

The Larry Meiller Show included the following topics in response to questions from Larry and from callers.

Larry began by asking about the controversy over embryonic stem cell research and President Bushes veto of a bill to allow more federal funding of the research, the first veto he has issued. Professor Shakhashiri said the American people have been very generous for many decades in supporting scientific research, and research is what makes progress happen. He said President Bush made a mistake because advances in stem cell research can potentially help many people. Professor Shakhashiri said the research will go on, it’s just that federal money can’t be used. He said that’s not in keeping with what Americans expect of their elected officials. He hopes the decision will be reversed because the consequences are not only financial but may discourage people from going into research.

Professor Shakhashiri said he is somewhat puzzled by the veto which was apparently driven by the influence of people around him who do not understand the real role of religion and science. He said religion and science are the two most powerful influences in society and they overlap. Both can serve society. Professor Shakhashiri said he respects other people’s beliefs but does not accept the rationale of the religious beliefs that have effected the President’s decision.

Larry asked about the current debate over academic freedom. Professor Shakhashiri said lack of federal support from the federal government will have an impact on the freedom of academicians to pursue knowledge. He said academic freedom is the freedom to inquire and explore, related to but not the same as freedom of speech. He said to artificially prevent researchers from pursuing a line of inquiry inhibits academic freedom. Many states are providing their own funds for stem cell research, including California and Illinois, and the private sector will probably provide money as well. Professor Shakhashiri hopes that elected officials do what’s right in backing freedom of inquiry.

The first caller challenged Professor Shakhashiri’s views, saying that he failed to differentiate between embryonic and adult stem cell research, and saying that it’s against federal law to fund research that destroys human life (the embryos). The caller claimed that embryonic stem cell research has produced no results while the use of adult stem cells has been successful.

Professor Shakhashiri said the purpose of research is to find out what stem cell therapy could do, but that the research is being help captive to very narrow beliefs. He reiterated that he respects the beliefs of others and that embryonic stem cell research will take place despite the President’s veto.

The next caller agreed that the President is wrong. The caller said the scientific community should not depend on the president, calling him anti-intellectual and anti-science, but should go ahead without him.

Professor Shakhashiri said the scientific community must take responsibility for promoting research, and that all citizens should take similar responsibility. He urged everyone to contact their elected officials and bring important issues to the forefront in the coming election. He said citizens should let their representatives know how they want their tax money used and see to it that we have a truly representative government. He urged all citizens to engage in a meaningful, respectful discussion.

Another caller said if adult stem cell treatment is successful, why bother with embryonic stem cells? The caller also asserted that freedom needs rules and that freedom without parameters is bondage.

Professor Shakhashiri agreed that freedom comes with responsibility and that individuals and groups must exercise responsibility along with freedom. He pointed out that the uses of adult stem cells were found through research and the only way to find out about the potential of embryonic stem cells is through research, so it’s important to do both.

Another caller said that scientific advances can be used to the detriment of society as well as to benefit society and that science is sometimes led by greed and not a desire to enhance the quality of life.

Professor Shakhashiri agreed that the purpose of technology should be to improve the human condition, which is why scientists should pay attention to the humanities to put advances in context and be aware of right and wrong. Some scientific advances have led to weapons of mass destruction. He pointed out that science is a human endeavor and that scientists, like everyone else, make mistakes. Holding science responsible is ultimately the job of responsible and knowledgeable citizens. He said citizens must care about advancing society and not leave it up to elected officials.

Another caller said the value of adult stem cell therapy is very limited and can’t help with many types of tissues, and that’s where the hope for embryonic stem cells comes from.

Another caller said Professor Shakhashiri probably regretted opening up the conversation on stem cells. He replied that he’s not sorry he brought it up since discussion is what we do in a free society.

Professor Shakhashiri is a native of Lebanon, having emigrated to the U.S. with his family in 1957, at the age of 17. He visited Lebanon just three months ago, and Larry asked about his feelings in view of the new war which has largely destroyed the country, which was just recovering from the destruction of previous wars.

Professor Shakhashiri said it has been heartbreaking to watch the news, watching the city where he grew up (Beirut) being destroyed. He has friends and relatives there and visited in April to promote an exchange program between the American University of Beirut and the UW-Madison. There are now six Lebanese exchange students in Madison. He asked listeners to imagine Madison with all entrances to the its main thoroughfare, the beltline, destroyed, with the airport destroyed and no electricity. He said that would give listeners some sense of the feeling of loss. He said violence by anyone should be condemned and that violence has never led to a good solution of any problem. Professor Shakhashiri is not sure he will ever be able to go back to visit Lebanon, and he’s concerned about the quality of life in the entire Middle East. He called for taking a hard look at our foreign policy trying to find ways to improve the situation.

June 15, 2006 Larry Meiller Show

The Larry Meiller Show included the following topics in response to questions from Larry and from callers.

Larry began by asking Professor Shakhashiri about resent reports than many Wisconsin schools are not meeting the standards of the No Child Left Behind Act, and most of the subsequent calls were about that topic.

Professor Shakhashiri said the reports are an important tell-tale indicating the quality of our schools. He said Wisconsin schools are generally in good shape but we cannot rest on our laurels. There are pockets of excellence and also pockets of very deep problems, and the Milwaukee Public Schools in particular need serious attention. Professor Shakhashiri noted that the federal government also recognizes schools of excellence. Schools which earn that designation are very proud of it and display banners proclaiming their excellence, so they should also pay attention to indicators of problems. He said students must not be allowed to fall behind because the quality of life in our society is at stake. Those who fall behind become a burden to society, not just economically but in human terms. He noted that the federal guidelines come with no money from the federal government and that states must pay the bills. Professor Shakhashiri hopes that the people of Wisconsin will take the reports to heart and act to improve education.

A caller, identifying himself as the technology director of the Chippewa Falls, Wisconsin school district, called the No Child Act another unfunded federal mandate. He said the district had to add another employee just to collect data to satisfy the act, with no help from the federal or state governments, and the entire burden falls on local taxpayers.

Professor Shakhashiri said he couldn’t agree more about the funding, which is a big problem, but asserted that the federal guidelines help us pay attention to problems.

Another caller said the federal standards are designed to cause all public schools to fail, but he said it’s not schools that fail, it is students. The caller said families and communities are struggling and the act is a Trojan horse to damage public education and funding for it.

Professor Shakhashiri said the criticism is valid and is at the heart of the controversy. Within the next 8 to 10 years, all public schools might fail to meet the standards set up by the act. Professor Shakhashiri still has doubts about the law and says it’s far from perfect, but it’s the only set of federal guidelines we have and he said we should do what we can to improve education.

Another caller, who identified herself as a volunteer in public schools, said education has changed just in the last ten years. At her school, students speak many different languages and come from very diverse backgrounds. The caller said she is very angry with President Bush, who doesn’t know what’s happening in society, and that mandates won’t work. She said the required testing is not the way to judge the quality of education.

Professor Shakhashiri replied that we need to be inventive and creative to attend to all students. He does not advocate mandates, but says guidelines can be very helpful in addressing some issues (acknowledging that the No Child act contains mandates, not just guidelines). He said the act is not a panacea to solving all education problems. He emphasized that the quality of education should not be a partisan issue but a way to make progress on a societal issue.

Another caller said a report from the General Accounting Office shows that the federal government spends billions on education but that prior to the act, there was no accountability in spending the money and parents had no way of judging their schools. He also asserted that many states are not spending the money they get from the federal government on education.

Professor Shakhashiri said money is a means to an end and that we should ask the more basic question–why do we send children to school? What are the purposes of public education? He noted that the current school year, with summer vacation, originated in a time when a majority of people still lived on farms and children were needed in summer to work on the farms. He said we should start over and determine what are the goals and expectations of education.

Another caller identified herself as a veteran teacher who has taught in both public and private schools and now teaches in the Milwaukee Public Schools. The caller said the purpose of education should be to make independent, critical thinkers who can make the world better. She said the No Child act forces teachers to teach to the test and not provide real education. She said that failing public schools will eventually be closed or privatized and that without public schools we won’t have a democracy. She asserted that charter and voucher schools take money away from public schools and also take the cream of the crop among students, leaving the rest to the public schools. She said it’s wrong to put all the blame on schools when students fail.

Professor Shakhashiri said he appreciated her comments and this is the heart of a democratic discussion of the issue. He noted the preoccupation with grades among his own students at the University due to parental and societal pressure. Professor Shakhashiri is all in favor of good grades, but he says there should be more to education. He said we should all be engaged in helping public education and deciding what is the purpose of schools and how we measure progress. He added that he would not trade American schools for any others in the world and said the strength of the system is it’s diversity, with more than 15,000 local school districts.

On another subject, a caller asked about a book by commentator Thomas Friedman, The World is Flat, in which Friedman says American young people are lacking in ambition and this will hinder our competitiveness as a nation. Professor Shakhashiri said he loves his job because it brings him in contact with young people, and he said some of them do seem to put limits on their ambition. But he added that we need collaboration as well as competition. While competition is a fact of life, he said we should also promote collaboration among individuals, communities and nations.

Another caller said he took beginning chemistry from Professor C. H.. Sorum at the U.W.-Madison in the 1960s and said Sorum’s approach was similar to Professor Shakhashiri’s. He said Sorum was interested in more than the subject matter–he also tried to instill in his students a desire for learning. Professor Shakhashiri not only knew Sorum, but when Sorum retired in 1970, Professor Shakhashiri was hired to take his position. Professor Shakhashiri told the caller, “You just made my day. That’s just what teachers love to hear from former students.” Professor Shakhashiri said he has a captive audience in his classroom and does his best to teach them chemistry, but also sees the course as a vehicle to enrich the students’ lives and help them fulfill their potential.

April 27, 2006 Larry Meiller Show

The Larry Meiller Show included the following topics in response to questions from Larry and from callers.

Professor Shakhashiri just returned from Lebanon where he participated in programs at the American University of Beirut and helped establish an exchange program for students and faculty between AUB and UW-Madison. While in Beirut, he also marked his 50th high school graduation anniversary (Professor Shakhashiri came to the U.S. with his family at age 16, in 1957.) Professor Shakhashiri said whenever he returns from a foreign trip, he gives thanks for the quality of life we enjoy in the U.S. The U.S. is a very special place, he said, and we all must work to keep it that way.

Professor Shakhashiri mentioned the upcoming celebration at the UW-Madison Chemistry Department, dedicating the new office and research tower and naming it for former Chancellor and Chemistry Department chair Irving Shain. Many events are planned for May 5 and 6, all free and open to the public. For more information, click here.

Larry asked about federal funding for science and technology. President Bush has proposed an American Competitiveness Act, which Professor Shakhashiri called the boldest plan since the reaction to the launch of Sputnik in the late 1950s. But he’s concerned that the plan could become nothing more than election year rhetoric due to budget constraints. If a new budget is not passed by the start of the next federal fiscal year, in October, federal agencies will have their budgets frozen at current levels, which Professor Shakhashiri says would not be good for science and technology or many other areas of the budget. He urged people to contact their congressional representatives supporting a budget along the lines the President has proposed.

Larry asked about a proposal by Florida Governor Jeb Bush that would require high school freshmen to declare a major. Larry, a longtime professor in the College of Agricultural and Life Sciences, said that in his experience, many University students are not able to settle on a major until they are well into their college studies. Professor Shakhashiri said it’s good that Governor Bush is calling attention to an important issue, that many students seem to lack direction and fail to get the most out of their education, but it’s uncertain how the state will react to the proposal. He noted that unlike most countries, the U.S. has a decentralized education system, with about 15,000 school districts and over 3500 colleges and universities. Professor Shakhashiri believes in having as many options as possible, but that means students and their parents must make wise choices.

A caller asked what is being done to reduce dependence on fossil fuels. Professor Shakhashiri says he was shocked to see the increase in gas prices during the two weeks he was out of the country. He said there is a lot of research going on into many alternatives including nuclear power and hydrogen as a fuel. April 26th was the 20th anniversary of the Chernobyl nuclear disaster, but Professor Shakhashiri said all alternatives must be studies because fossil fuels will run out and dependence on oil has many implications for politics, the economy and foreign policy. We are far from replacing fossil fuels and need more smart people going into science and technology. Another caller asked about progress toward obtaining energy from nuclear fusion. Professor Shakhashiri said there’s a lot of research in that area as well. While such research is very expensive still far from the goal of obtaining practical energy, we shouldn’t give up on it. Another caller asked about the possibility of tapping the vast amount of methane gas which is frozen in the ocean bed in polar regions. There have been commercial ventures trying to capture that methane, but so far with little result. Professor Shakhashiri pointed out that there are already many vehicles running on natural gas, which is mostly methane, and installations that capture methane from farm animal waste. He also pointed out that methane is a powerful greenhouse gas. For more information on methane, look for it under our “Chemical of the Week” section.

A caller asked about the practical application solar power and also asked what would be the result if the amount of money spent on the Iraq war were spent instead on energy research. Professor Shakhashiri said there’s a lot of research on solar power and that various kinds of solar power panels are now available to the public. The question is whether the cost of tapping solar energy makes it an economical proposition. The older wing of the UW-Madison chemistry building is named for former professor and department chair Farrington Daniels, who was an early advocate of solar energy and did a lot of pioneering work in the field. The U.S. Department of Energy and the UW-Madison College of Engineering both have a lot of information on solar power on their web sites. As for the cost of the war, Professor Shakhashiri believes in the democratic process in deciding how to spend money and said the goal should be to sustain the quality of life in the U.S. and worldwide. He noted that if citizens don’t like what their government is doing, we have ways to remove the officials in power. Other countries have different ways of removing governments, ways which we do not want to emulate. He said those who believe mistakes have been made in policy toward the Middle East should pursue change peacefully and respectfully in keeping with our democratic traditions and values.

Another caller said conservation is the only reasonable energy policy in the short run and asked why we as a society refuse to address it with measures such as penalizing gas guzzling vehicles. Professor Shakhashiri said conservation is extremely important and we should do a lot more. He said we are a wasteful society, wasting may resources, and that we must develop a sense of appreciation for what we have and use our wealth wisely. Professor Shakhashiri said marketing and advertising play a big role in our decision making, with inducements to buy bigger and faster vehicles. He noted the ads promoting power and speed, often showing the vehicle alone on the road or climbing mountains, with a fine print disclaimer at the end stating that the ad used a professional driver on a closed course. He said too many amateur drivers on crowded highways try to emulate the ads and he concluded that we must develop a more responsible attitude toward the use of all resources.

Another caller asked about technology transfer from public universities and whether the rate is too high or too low. Professor Shakhashiri said the rate varies from one type of technology to another, but that there will be a lot more of it and that the transfer will usually be to the benefit of society. Public universities have become very involved in technology transfer in the last 10 or 15 years. One of the earliest efforts is the Wisconsin Alumni Research Foundation, started by the UW-Madison in the 1920s with the proceeds from licensing patents on the production of vitamin D. WARF remains a world leader in technology transfer, which Professor Shakhashiri said should be encouraged while respecting intellectual rights and fair distribution of the economic rewards. The UW-Madison, like many other universities, now has a research park and a technology transfer office, and such efforts are sure to grow.

March 16, 2006 Larry Meiller Show

The Larry Meiller Show included the following topics in response to questions from Larry and from callers.

Professor Shakhashiri began by inviting listeners to an open house to dedicate the latest addition to the UW-Madison Chemistry building as the Irving Shain Research Tower, named for former Chemistry Professor and Madison campus Chancellor Irving Shain. Dedication events will take place May 5th. and 6th. (For more details, click http//www.chem.wisc.edu/ .) Irving Shain joined the UW faculty in 1952 and, as an electro-chemist, developed diagnostic chemical procedures called cyclic voltammetry that are now so common they are taken for granted. A statement from current Chancellor John Wiley calls Shain, “One of the most consistently influential figures in the history of the University.” Professor Shakhashiri said in addition supporting the sciences, Shain was a strong supporter of the arts and humanities. For example, he helped find permanent financing for the Pro Arte Quartet in the School of Music and he led many initiatives including the founding of the UW research park and an exchange program with China.

Larry asked about the recent resignation of Larry Summers as President of Harvard University after a vote of no confidence by the faculty. While some of the issues may be peculiar to Harvard, Professor Shakhashiri said the role of a university president has changed drastically in the last 20 to 25 years. Presidents are now primarily fund raisers, leaving day to day academic leadership to other officers. A much larger share of public university funding now comes from the federal government and from the private sector, rather than the state, and faculty members are becoming more entrepreneurial in search of funds and in starting businesses. There is a perception among faculty in the arts and humanities that the system now favors the sciences and engineering. Professor Shakhashiri said Chancellor Shain foresaw this development and tried to maintain a balance between the different disciplines. While science and technology are the engines that drive the economy, Professor Shakhashiri said the arts and humanities are also important and that without them the UW-Madison would be a technical institute, not a University, which offers a wide variety of intellectual offerings. Professor Shakhashiri also noted that faculty have a role in shared governance especially at UW-Madison and must take that role more seriously. Presidents have many constituencies to satisfy, even though some outsiders view them as corporate CEOs. Leading a university is getting tougher and Professor Shakhashiri predicted that the next President of Harvard will have a very different personality from Larry Summers.

A caller noted that over the past several years many committees and commissions have called for better teaching of science and improvements in education. The caller asked if there has been any improvement. Professor Shakhashiri said there have been many reports and that’s a good thing because the attention span of the American public is short and constant reminders are needed. Some reports have resulted in specific action, though it’s difficult to attribute a specific outcome to a particular report. Professor Shakhashiri would like a continual flow of reports to call attention to issues such as the quality of education, support for basic research, and the impact of science and technology on society. He said there’s a current presidential commission which intends to call for the use of verifiable indicators to show if recommendations are being met.

A caller asked about the book The World is Flat by Thomas Friedman which compares the U.S. economy and education system with others. Professor Shakhashiri highly recommends the book. Globalization has changed the world and while the U.S. maintains its lead in science and technology, other countries are catching up and may surpass the U.S. While the book is alarmist in tone, Professor Shakhashiri says that’s OK because our attention span is short and we need reminders. The U.S. can react to perceived threats–after the Soviet Union launched Sputnik in 1957, fear triggered a massive national response including renewed commitment to science and math education, and we are still enjoying the benefits of that effort. Professor Shakhashiri suggested the caller might also be interested in “Science and Engineering Indicators”, a biennial report on the status of science and science education in the U.S. http://www.nsf.gov/statistics/seind06/.

The spring equinox is next Monday, March 20, when hours of daylight will equal the hours of darkness in each hemisphere. Professor Shakhashiri challenged callers to explain why we have seasons. This is a standard question on tests of science literacy, which Professor Shakhashiri will discuss with his freshman chemistry class Monday. He will show them an eight minute excerpt from a documentary shot at graduation ceremonies at Harvard, in which new grads and faculty members were asked the question. The vast majority of the 23 people interviewed on camera did not know what causes the seasons.

A caller provided the correct answer to the cause of the seasons–the tilt of the Earth’s axis. When the northern hemisphere is tilted away from the sun, much of the sunlight glances off or does not penetrate to the surface, causing winter. On the opposite side of the sun, the northern hemisphere is tilted toward the sun, causing much more heat and light to penetrate to the surface. Professor Shakhashiri then asked a follow-up question–why does the axis tilt? The caller didn’t know.

Another caller provided the commonly accepted explanation for the tilt of the Earth’s axis. Early in its history, about four billion years ago, the earth was hit by a very large object, perhaps as large as Mars. The cataclysmic collision resulted in the formation of the moon and the tilting of the earth’s axis (presumably it started out with no tilt, with the equator spinning on the same plane as the earth’s orbit. If that were still the case, there would be no seasons.) The caller said he remembered the explanation from a class taken 30 years ago, and Professor Shakhashiri congratulated him on remembering it. For more info see the June 22nd appearance at http://www.scifun.org/radio/1999.htm

February 14, 2006 Harold McGee on the Larry Meiller Show

Larry’s guest was food scientist Harold McGee who will be in Madison Feb. 22 to 24 as a Visiting Fellow with the Wisconsin Initiative for Science Literacy and The Center for the Humanities. McGee’s pioneering book On Food and Cooking: The Science and Lore of the Kitchen was first published in 1984 and revised in 2004. McGee has written many articles and reviews and has appeared on National Public Radio’s “All Things Considered”, Fresh Air” and “Science Friday.” For more information about the public lectures on Feb. 22 and Feb. 23, click here. The appearance on Feb. 22 will be with a panel of Madison chefs at the State Historical Society auditorium on the Madison campus at 7 PM.

The following topics were discussed in answer to questions from Larry and from guests.

McGee said there have been many changes since he wrote the first edition of On Food and Cooking using a typewriter. The first edition ran to 700 pages while the latest edition contains almost 900 pages. McGee said the internet has made it much easier to find information. The problem now is not finding information but limiting and filtering it. In 1984 Americans were just beginning to get seriously interested in food, McGee said, with the coffee craze and the ethnic food boom just starting. McGee said the book grew out of his own curiosity.

A caller asked why some foods retain heat longer than others. For example, coffee cools much faster than tomato sauce. McGee said it’s because of the relative thickness. Molecules in coffee, which is mostly water, can move around freely and move to the surface where they dissipate their heat. In thick food, the heat from the center can’t travel as easily to the surface. This means it’s also harder to heat thicker foods evenly and things like sauces can burn on the bottom if they are not stirred.

Another caller asked why foods heated in a microwave cool faster than those heated in an oven or on a stove. McGee said it’s an illusion–similar substances heated to the same temperature will cool at the same rate regardless of the means by which the temperature was raised. However, microwaves may heat unevenly, so the temperature may not reach a uniform high level, and microwaves generally do not heat the container, depending on what it’s made of, so a cool container cools the food faster and makes it seem cooler. Stoves and ovens, on the other hand, actually heat the container first, which then transfers the heat to the food.

Another caller asked why fruits turn brown when they are cut. McGee said plants have chemical systems to limit damage. One system is an enzyme that reacts with oxygen from the atmosphere to turn the fruit brown and give it an unpleasant taste as a defense against further damage by insects and bacteria. Lemon juice helps preserve the freshness of cut fruit because the acid retards the action of the enzyme. Another way to preserve cut fruits and vegetables is to put them in water, cutting off the supply of atmospheric oxygen.

Another caller asked about aging meat, noting that venison he aged had taken on an iridescent color and tasted great, but he wondered if it was safe to eat. McGee said aged meat is more flavorful and tender because enzymes in the meat break down the protein into more flavorful molecules. McGee said the iridescent appearance was due to some drying of the meat, resulting in a more complex surface structure with interference patterns like an oil slick. McGee said meat should be aged at a temperature of 45 to 50 degrees Fahrenheit, somewhat warmer than most refrigerator settings, and can be aged for up to a month without danger. If mold grows on the surface, it can be trimmed off and the meat underneath is still good. McGee said aging meat is not an economical proposition for most sellers because it takes up storage space and some of the meat is lost through drying and trimming.

The caller also asked why the taste and quality of fish, such as walleye, can vary greatly even though the processing and cooking are the same. McGee said that unlike birds and mammals, fish use muscle mass as an energy source during some seasons and the quality of the meat can vary greatly. Larry added that quickly preserving the fish also makes a difference. He said fish caught by ice fishing and frozen in a matter of minutes after catching taste much better than summer-caught fish. McGee agreed.

Another caller asked how microwave ovens work. McGee said the energy is in the form of radio waves which are closer to heat than to X rays and are perfectly safe. The energy excites molecules in the food. But the caller asked why do some fruits and vegetables, like broccoli, do strange things in microwaves? McGee said the tiny broccoli flowers are full of salts, which concentrate the energy, and they are very close together, which leads to sparking between the buds. He said too much energy ruins fruits and vegetables, and suggested that the caller try a lower power setting.

Another caller asked about irradiated food. Food is irradiated with high powered light or particle beams to kill bacteria and preserve the food. McGee said the process leaves no residual radiation in the food and has been used for decades on foods like spices, which have a lot of odd shaped surface area where bacteria are hard to eliminate through conventional cleaning. In the last 20 years, irradiation has spread to many other foods. Irradiation does cause minimal chemical changes in the food. McGee said this has been extensively studied and no adverse health effects have been detected.

Another caller complained that cooking meat makes it too dry, even when marinated, and asked how marinating works. McGee said most marinades are acidic, which breaks apart the structure of the muscle and allows for more retention of water. He said soaking in brine also increases water absorption. He said dryness may be caused by cooking at too high a temperature, and recommended cooking at a lower temperature.

February 2, 2006 Larry Meiller Show

The Larry Meiller Show included the following topics in response to questions from Larry and from listeners.

Larry asked about a proposal from Wisconsin Governor James Doyle to increase the state’s high school graduation requirement for math and science from two years each to three years. Professor Shakhashiri said it’s a good thing that the Governor has made this proposal and he expects the legislature to take it up and provide its own ideas. However, Professor Shakhashiri hopes it does not become a partisan issue (Doyle is a Democrat and both houses of the state legislature are controlled by Republicans) and he fears that schools might take the content of two years and spread it over three years as has happened in some other states. He hopes there’s a serious debate over standards because there’s a lot at stake and he noted that standards are already available from several national organizations. The details of implementation are important and he also noted that graduation standards are only one aspect of good education–another is quality teachers.

A caller asked about President Bushes proposal for 30,000 mathematicians and scientists to become adjunct teachers. The caller said some of the best professors he had in college had no teacher training, and asserted that teacher certification is not necessary. Professor Shakhashiri noted that teacher certification is a state law, though it could be waived or changed. While Professor Shakhashiri said he himself never took a teacher preparation course, he added that he has great respect for his colleagues in education and wants to learn from their research, while educators should be aware of concerns like the caller’s. Professor Shakhashiri said that many people have noble ideas and goals, noting that President Bush Senior in 1989 called for the U.S. to lead the world in science and math teaching by 2000, a goal that was not met. Political leaders can’t be expected to do everything, he continued, and leadership from all segments of society is needed. Professor Shakhashiri compared the current situation to the aftermath of the launch of Sputnik by the Soviet Union in 1957, which resulted in much greater emphasis on math and science in American schools. The motivation then was fear, he said, while the main motivation now may be economic. Developing countries are making great strides in science and technology and will be powerful players in a world economy, thanks in part to higher education in the United States where many people from around the world have studied. While advances in science and technology benefit everyone worldwide, Professor Shakhashiri said nations support research and education in science and we must see to it that the U.S. can sustain economic leadership based on science and technology.

A caller said it’s not enough to just target math and science since students also need skills like reading, writing and developing creative thinking processes. Professor Shakhashiri agreed, saying that science is a human endeavor and education should develop whole human beings. He also said that competence in a subject alone is not enough for a teacher. Teachers have to be able to relate to age groups, help students achieve goals and be motivators, he said, and some excellent scientists are not good teachers because they are not committed to it. Professor Shakhashiri said when people ask him what he does, he answers, “I’m a teacher.” When asked what he teaches, he answers, “Students.” While the subject matter is science, the goal is teaching students, which requires human interaction, which should also include parents.

Another caller said there seems to be a disconnect between science teaching and the real world–while students learn a lot of information, they have trouble connecting it to real experience. Professor Shakhashiri agreed, saying this a topic teachers often discuss. He said the world is full of wonder but textbooks don’t always relate to it. As a practical example, right now in Wisconsin students might observe that snow banks shrink even when the temperature remains below freezing. The reason is that some of the water undergoes sublimation, changing directly from solid ice to vapor and evaporating without forming liquid water. Professor Shakhashiri said teachers and parents can find such practical lessons in many everyday activities and occurrences.

Another caller asked if the usual system of teaching science in high school, starting with biology, then chemistry, then physics, is backward. Some scientists, including Nobel Laureate Leon Letterman, think physics should be taught first because it establishes principles that apply to everything else. Some schools do teach physics first. Professor Shakhashiri said he doesn’t fully agree, but added that science should be careful about categorizing itself into departments because there’s a lot of overlap. The biology of a plant can’t be divorced from chemistry and the laws of physics. He also said it’s a tribute to our democratic institutions that we don’t all teach things the same way.

A final caller asked about teaching “intelligent design”, the belief that the universe is too complicated to have happened by accident and must have been created by an unnamed designer. Professor Shakhashiri said intelligent design is a belief, not a scientific theory, and does not belong in science classes. While he has great respect for religious beliefs, which should be discussed in school, he says it’s not appropriate for science classes. Professor Shakhashiri quoted biologist Edward Wilson, who said there are two strong forces in society, religion and science, and that they could greatly advance society if they could work together instead of polarizing society. While there have been many clashes between science and religion, Professor Shakhashiri said they can work together to advance our understanding of ourselves and the Universe.

Click for informations about recent shows

Back to Science is Fun Home Page